tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post1100890367337208481..comments2024-03-10T04:32:25.985-07:00Comments on Improved Initiative: Dungeon Masters, Do Not Add Insult To Injury (Without Consent)Neal Litherlandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01307649737269196558noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-60619854132299880812018-10-28T07:58:09.285-07:002018-10-28T07:58:09.285-07:00Yup. Consent mentioned right there in the title.
...Yup. Consent mentioned right there in the title.<br /><br />For me, the use of fumbles depends on the nature of the game. D&D and Pathfinder generally aren't the type of game where I'd use them.<br /><br />If you're playing a game like Paranoia with emphasis on hijinks, fumbles fit right in.<br /><br />I think it's worth bringing up a system I think is interesting in Chronicles of Darkness: Players can choose to upgrade a regular failure into a Dramatic Failure to earn a beat (experience). It's also fitting the horror setting, since you expect stuff to go wrong at the worst moments. There's also no in-built expectation that your character would be trained for combat, like most settings assume.Bronze Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10938257296504189967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-63309264450880815452018-10-28T04:32:03.840-07:002018-10-28T04:32:03.840-07:00He's not saying don't use them, just get p...He's not saying don't use them, just get player buy-in first.<br /><br />My current game does not use them, but I have on the past, even using the brutal Rolemaster crit and fumble charts.<br /><br />My most recent 5e system was to use the ADV/DIS mechanic. Roll a 20? Get advantage on your next roll. Roll a 1? Disadvantage on your next roll. You could also trade in your ADV/DIS to take some narrative control of the situation. I've had players trade in disadvantage to have a weapon break or to fall prone. <br /><br />It's all about having the players on board.Jon Bupphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09626833027364924257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-61789737296879997252018-10-26T22:15:20.864-07:002018-10-26T22:15:20.864-07:00Realism? How so? I trained with so many weapons an...Realism? How so? I trained with so many weapons and I never had an accident in training and sparring. Nor it had ever happen when I got jumped on the street. So What is the realistic chance of having an accident? 5% chance is way too stupid for me. You can't tell me that I do the same move a thousand times everyday and not having a single accident is because I'm lucky and haven't rolled a one. Doesn't make sense to me at all. I made a hundred rounds and haven't shot anyone nor myself because I wasn't stupid. So where is that natural becomes realism? It's a game, it can never have realism, it can only get to as real as we imagine it. Shit doesn't happen just like that. When I did sales, there was a saying, there is no luck, only achievement. If you knock enough doors, practices enough, and put your heart to sell you believe the customer would want to buy, you will get a sale. If I take my time to swing my overweight Nagamaki a thousand time everyday, I will be able to swing it the same way without making a mistake once. That is realism.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581577036882661272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-9918439756660303922018-10-25T00:28:35.146-07:002018-10-25T00:28:35.146-07:00What you are describing is called gamble. Not game...What you are describing is called gamble. Not game.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581577036882661272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-65306815926704284252018-10-25T00:24:50.906-07:002018-10-25T00:24:50.906-07:00First, e5 still have spells that will change bette...First, e5 still have spells that will change better and allow one to win without roll to hit. Second, we are talking about Pathfinder in this blog. Three, magic is powerful? Takes years to train? You level up and get new spell. That's not really years. On the other hand, so it martial art, archery and firearm. However, non-magical attacks has less options without the use of magical items. Spell caster can do all types of attacks and damage with without magical items. Still make no sense. You can say people needs xx amount of years in train to learn magic so their magic should be powerful, because that wasn't in the game, there are no such rules. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581577036882661272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-90256705317871399362018-10-24T12:10:17.840-07:002018-10-24T12:10:17.840-07:00Critical hits and misses add variety and an elemen...Critical hits and misses add variety and an element of randomness to the game which can be a lot of fun. Combat is chaotic and unpredictable, you never know what will happen.Mr. Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07690102286219079784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-5631054140531820622018-10-24T11:34:00.933-07:002018-10-24T11:34:00.933-07:00Gaming isn't life. It's an escape from lif...Gaming isn't life. It's an escape from life. Deal with it. ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13187078823976954537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-12037167972858544192018-10-24T10:09:51.745-07:002018-10-24T10:09:51.745-07:00I'm thinking maybe you are one of those who th...I'm thinking maybe you are one of those who think good should always triumph... That PCs should never have the chance of the entire party dying... I am even willing to bet you believe all kids should receive trophies if they play sports, even if they lost.... Oh wait, nobody lost because nobody kept score, so one side wouldn't feel bad.<br /><br />Plain and simple, weapons break (look in your handbooks, there is a hardness chart and a HP chart for every item in the book). In reality, most of us dms don't keep track during a battle to see if a particular hit was enough to penetrate the hardness, and thus deduct hps from your equipment. Instead we use the critical fumble; and even then, it isn't always a broken weapon. In my case the two common effects are you threw your weapon by accident (hey, you've been fighting and your hands are soaked in sweat; not to mention the blood all over them from you or your opponent being hit!), and/or you making a fantastic pirouette before landing on your ass. Both results give enemies ONE round of bonuses, because both results simply cause you to either retrieve your weapon or get a new one... Or to stand back up.<br /><br />Newsflash... Its called REALISM. Yes, it can suck to have your lvl one wizard with four HP roll a one... But SHIT HAPPENS! get used to it, cause if you can't deal with life throwing currve balls at you, your going to be forever miserable.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00052731292473244643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-73141296789110117542018-10-24T09:01:04.722-07:002018-10-24T09:01:04.722-07:00i think you may have wasted your time with this ar...i think you may have wasted your time with this article. i mean, did the article have to be so long to tell dms not to be dicks?Brandon Dudleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07719951820356918467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-45650157383152268262018-10-24T06:31:09.703-07:002018-10-24T06:31:09.703-07:00The logic is that magic is a powerful force and it...The logic is that magic is a powerful force and it takes years of training to use it safely. Under 5e a lot of spells are roll to hit any way and casters also have a lot less HP than melee classes so I don't think it's right to say they are unbalanced.Mr. Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07690102286219079784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-85868859119938783232018-10-24T06:29:58.604-07:002018-10-24T06:29:58.604-07:00Waaah, it's not fair. Life isn't fair, de...Waaah, it's not fair. Life isn't fair, deal with it.Mr. Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07690102286219079784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-68834320822333812382018-10-24T00:09:38.628-07:002018-10-24T00:09:38.628-07:00As a game designer and a master GM who transform p...As a game designer and a master GM who transform people from suicidal to successful people. I agree with you in this one. Fumble decks or fumble tables are not balanced. Reality is already unfair, you make a game even more unfair than reality is against the basic fundamental requirement to make a game. ''Fun and Fair'' Unable to perform actions that the devote everything they have into is already a big punishment. <br /><br />Also it farther make the game unbalance as spell caster can easily win a game without roll a single d20 once. While other combatants have no choice but to take that risk. Skilled mage can't be touched even at level 1. Skilled fighter still taking deadly risk even at level 20. What logic is that? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581577036882661272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-84939910629072586872018-10-23T15:09:17.401-07:002018-10-23T15:09:17.401-07:00Unlike the prior two comments, I'm with you on...Unlike the prior two comments, I'm with you on this one. It actually follows a principle explained in the 3E DM's Guide -- anything that adds more randomness to the game favors the underdogs, and the PCs are *never* the underdogs.<br /><br />The reasoning basically matches your explanation. The DM has an unlimited number of enemies and monsters to throw into their campaign. With few exceptions, each of them is only going to be present for a single scene, and they're generally not expected to win. The PCs, on the other hand, are front-and-center in every single scene.<br /><br />So if you add something random to the game -- a chance at fumbling an attack, or a critical hit resulting in an instant kill, or replacing every d20 roll with a d30, anything along those lines -- while the players will occasionally have the fun of watching an enemy get punished by the dice, over a long enough period that punishment WILL fall on a player.<br /><br />Some players are fine with this. They like the added challenge, or find the chosen option interesting. But your consent rule is spot-on -- if even ONE player doesn't want to use such an optional rule, then don't use it.<br /><br />I just recently had this session-zero discussion with my own group, regarding a variant critical-hit and fumble ruleset for Pathfinder. Most of the group thought it sounded interesting, but a couple players said they didn't want the risk, so we dropped it.HeroForgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00353927115011301495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-12700030528653264732018-10-23T12:04:47.683-07:002018-10-23T12:04:47.683-07:00I am going to respectively disagree with this arti...I am going to respectively disagree with this article. As a 30+ year GM, I am far from being a "Punisher". Yet I love the Crit/Fumble decks, and my players are fine using them. I require confirmed crits and confirmed fumbles (Roll a 1, you roll again and if it misses the target AC, THEN you fumble). Combat is chaotic and the unexpected can happen, that's just part of the risk. It does seem like you may be exaggerating or perhaps haven't scrutinized the fumble deck though. Skimming through the melee results, out of 50 cards I'm only seeing two that break your weapon, and a few that damage it but don't take it out of commission. Most of them are status effects (some that can be negated with a save). And I don't think I've seen a melee character with only one weapon - usually it's 3 or more that they haul around. I find that the decks add a level of flavor and while they can cause a character inconvenience, more often it's their foes that are affected, since statistically there are more bad guys and the PC's tend to have higher AC's meaning more foes confirm the fumbles. Yes, a character have a very bad day with an unlucky card, but not very often, and certainly not to a degree that they feel punished.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172761316762618263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3534782797790619934.post-15068087130098844232018-10-23T10:15:09.000-07:002018-10-23T10:15:09.000-07:00I feel like you might not quite get how economies ...I feel like you might not quite get how economies and tension work.<br /><br />RPGs, like any game, are all about managing your resources; whoever does so in the most economical way wins (Except for totally random games, like Bunko.) PF is a fairly complex economy, with many resources to juggle. Players already know there's a chance the weapon they rely on may break, or may not be useful in all situations, and so that's why most players carry 2 or 3 (or more) of them!<br /><br />I'll bet you have no problem with characters having a limited number of spells. After all, limiting spells is just a way to turn a game into a slog, by your logic.<br /><br />Mages have limited spells, Paladins have limited heals, bowmen have limited ammunition, non-mages have (randomly) limited swings or potions. It's the economy of the game, and when you go into combat, not only are you at risk of losing, you're also at risk of spending more resources on that combat than you intended. And seeing as how most players (and GMs) don't like it when PCs die, that means the only means you have to encourage solutions other than combat is to make it cost resources other than lives.<br /><br />Time is another resource that can be spent, but IME is often ignored in favor of dramatic coincidence. Well-tracked time, however, can put pressure on the PCs to take riskier actions to avoid failing the quest and having spent all those resources for no gain.Jaycee Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17643340016892988682noreply@blogger.com