Using Jungian Archetypes As A Way To Build Your Character

The early contributors to the modern art of psychology were really more philosophers than they were doctors in many respects. Because of this, most of the things they laid out as explanations for human behavior seem wildly off-base at best, and outright harmful at worst, mostly because of how far we've come since these initial explanations that are nearly a century old in some cases. While not really useful for modern therapists, however, the models and ideas they proposed can often be extremely useful to storytellers and players alike who might be having trouble getting a strong grip on their characters, and what their story is.

And if you're looking for a fun place to start, I recommend the 12 Jungian Archetypes.

As we enter the dark contemplation of the soul...

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The 12 Archetypes (And Their Uses)

The idea behind the 12 Archetypes is that these are concepts that exist within the great collective unconscious of humanity. They are broad titles and ideas which, according to their inventor, provide insight into understanding the human psyche, and the challenges we face both inside and out. While this idea has long fallen by the wayside for medicinal purposes (right alongside cocaine being used to treat the ghosts in your blood), this idea can have several applications for your characters, and even your settings!

The 12 Archetypes of Jung are:

- The Innocent

- The Orphan

- The Hero

- The Caregiver

- The Explorer

- The Rebel

- The Lover

- The Creator

- The Jester

- The Sage

- The Magician

- The Ruler

This might put one in mind of ANOTHER tool that deals in archetypes and symbolism...

While a deeper description of the archetypes is listed in the link at the beginning of this post, the best way to think of them is kind of like a zodiac sign for a character. They represent a generalization, along with conflicts and struggles someone who fits this kind of concept might deal with, and the strengths and drives they might have. What can be even more fun, though, is that because there's 12 of them, you can roll 1d12 as a way to randomize part of what you want to do with your character's story, as well as their personality!

If you want to play a fighter, but you end up with the Creator, do they struggle with their skill in conflict? Do they hope to lay aside their sword one day, and to take up a life of carpentry, or another craft? Do they instead attempt to treat their weapon as an artist would a brush, developing a unique martial art, or perhaps weaving their own legend? Or do they seek mastery of strategy, creating entirely new ways of thinking about warfare? Does a wizard who winds up as the Ruler seek to solidify their grasp on power and authority through the arcane arts? Do they struggle with trust, or delegation to others, growing paranoid as they come ever closer to a seat of command? Or does the rule over mortals pale when compared to a rule over gods? Does the noble with a cold fortune and elite training fulfill the role of the Orphan, seeking to find (or perhaps to be) the family that was denied to them? Or do the challenges they face leave them as an outsider, despite their best attempts?

And if you're a Game Master who happens to be in the process of creating your world, consider using these 12 Archetypes as the basis for your cosmic pantheon. They make for great gods, and they can really get your brain churning regarding the types of divinities your players might serve... or even oppose! Making these Archetypes the names of constellations and actually turning them into the zodiac signs of your world is also a fun idea (especially if you're keeping a 12-month calendar), and this goes double if being born under certain signs does actually come with particular powers and blessings, as well as drawbacks.

Lastly, though, I have one for my World of Darkness players...

You summoned us?

If you're having trouble with a character's Nature and Demeanor, roll 2d12. The Archetypes work a treat for that system, and they're a great way to really stretch your creativity by seeing how these two randomly-selected broad generalizations come together, and coalesce into a single person. Especially when they seem contradictory, but truly aren't when you dig just a little bit beneath the skin.

Some More Recommended Reading Before You Go...

If this article caught your attention, I wanted to recommend a few supplements I've put out over the past few years that also might be of use to you! So if you've made it this far, consider picking up"

- 100 Questions To Ask About Your Characters

- 100 Character Goals and Motivations

- 100 Tips and Tricks For Being A Better Game Master

Like, Follow, and Stay in Touch!

That's all for this week's Fluff post. To stay on top of all my content and releases, make sure you subscribe to my newsletter at the bottom of the page!

Again, for more of my work, check out my Vocal archive, and stop by the Azukail Games YouTube channel, or my Rumble channel The Literary Mercenary! Or if you'd prefer to read some of my books, like my dystopian sci-fi thriller Old Soldiers, my hardboiled gangland noir series starring a bruiser of a Maine Coon with Marked Territory and Painted Cats, my sword and sorcery novel Crier's Knife or my latest short story collection The Rejects, then head over to My Amazon Author Page!

To stay on top of all my latest releases, follow me on Blue Sky, Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter, and now Pinterest as well! To support my work, consider Buying Me a Ko-Fi, or heading to The Literary Mercenary's Patreon page to become a regular, monthly patron. That one helps ensure you get more Improved Initiative, and it means you'll get my regular, monthly giveaways as a bonus!

What Do You Want To See Next in "Sundara: Dawn of a New Age"?

Regular readers know that since 2021 I've been releasing content for my own fantasy RPG setting Sundara: Dawn of a New Age. This setting is available both for Pathfinder Classic, as well as for Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition, and my goal with it was to upend a lot of the old stereotypes and conventions that come with fantasy RPGs, but without throwing the baby out with the bath water.

While I covered some of this in my blog What is "Sundara: Dawn of a New Age" All About?, the short version is that I wanted to make a game setting that tossed out monolithic aspects by adding more organic details, and which focused more on embracing new solutions and ways of doing things instead of feeling like it was constantly trying to re-capture some lost, mythic golden age.

Some of the things I've already done include:

- Removing alignment entirely.

- Making the gods more mysterious, and variable.

- Expanded non-human species so they are just as (if not more) varied than humans.

- Removed the concept of countries as we know them today, making power structures more varied.

- Added a bunch of weird guilds, technologies, and uses of magic across the setting.

Stuff is getting strange as the setting spreads out.

While I have plenty of ideas that I could spin up going forward, I wanted to take this week's Monday update to ask what you, the readers, would like to see?

Before we get into it this week, don't forget to sign up for my weekly newsletter to get all my updates right in your inbox. Also, if you've got a bit of spare cash that you'd like to use to help keep the wheels turning, consider becoming a Patreon patron!

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What Would Get You More Interested in The Setting?

When I started this series off it began with Cities of Sundara, providing guides for places like Ironfire: City of Steel and Moüd: City of Bones. After I'd established several of these locations I put out a guide to how gods and the divine work in the setting (which is a lot less structured and established than in many other settings I've seen, where the mythology we hear is often taken as fact), and then moved on to Species of Sundara where I laid out broader diasporas and cultures for dwarves, elves, gnomes, halflings, orcs, and the Blooded (a combination of so-called half-elves and half-orcs). The most recent release, Sellswords of Sundara, covered famous and infamous mercenary companies, and soon there will be a collection of 10 towns with full details.

My question for you, as a Game Master or a player, is what would you be interested in seeing more of going forward? Not just in a, "This would be neat," sense, but in a, "I would pay money to support that," sense.

It's what makes the wheels turn, after all.

Current possible plans include:

- Expansion of locations in the setting (more town and city guides).

- Expansion of species guides (with more creatures and unique player options for them).

- Campaign modules (so players could actually explore some of the setting in more detail).

- World detail guides (moving on from mercenaries to guilds, cults, and other organizations).

While these aren't the only options, there are two projects that are not currently on the roster, and that's releasing a full-sized setting guide, and releasing a full pre-written campaign. The big reason for this is not because I wouldn't be interested in these things, but because this is a one-man show, and those kinds of projects take a lot of time to put together. So, generally speaking, anything that can't be completed in 1-2 months isn't feasible with the audience size Sundara currently commands. If audience demand grows then those things might be possible down the line, but not for the immediate future.

Which is, incidentally, the main reason so much of this content is designed to slot into homebrew games as well. Because if you just want one or two aspects, you can pluck them out of the setting without requiring a bunch of strings to come with it.

Well, most of the time, at least.

Also, for added clarity, I am not the publisher for this setting. I'm just the writer; Azukail Games is the one who's putting out all these splats. So I'm not just asking you what folks would like to see going forward because I want to sell more copies (though that is part of it). It's also because I need to be able to show growing interest in the setting, and to create a track record of positive sales, in order to get further books approved for writing and release.

So tell me what you want to see! Leave a comment below, or reach out to me on social media, but my ears are open for what would get more folks interested in checking out this setting as I add on to it.

Lastly, if you're not familiar with the releases to-date, I've linked them all below with a general description for you. And if you do choose to check them out, I hope they surpass expectation! Don't forget to stop by the Azukail Games YouTube channel, as well, where I have several videos talking about Sundara, the philosophy behind it, and covering some of what I'm trying to do with this particular world. Consider subscribing, as well, as we need to hit 1k followers there, and we haven't even broken 300 yet.

Take a Look For Yourself!

I took a brief break on making new Sundara content at the start of the year, but I'm already back on the wagon! Sellswords of Sundara (available for Pathfinder Classic as well as DND 5E) is full of unique archetypes/subclasses for mercenary companies that come with their own themes, histories, NPCs, rumors, and more, and that should be coming out shortly. Coming soon you'll also have Towns of Sundara, so that folks have some smaller places to put between the cities that are just as interesting and unique in their own ways (and which acts as a good follow up to 10 Fantasy Villages, which kicked this whole project off in the first place).

Cities of Sundara

The setting first began with the Cities of Sundara splats. Self-contained guides to some of the larger and more powerful centers of trade, industry, arms, and magic, these unique locations provide plenty of fodder for character generation and plots. Not only that, but each one comes with unique, mechanical goodies for players and GMs alike to take out for a spin!

- Ironfire: The City of Steel (Pathfinder and DND 5E): Built around the Dragon Forge, Ironfire is where the secret to dragon steel was first cracked. The center of the mercenary trade in the region, as well as boasting some of the finest schools for teaching practical sciences, Ironfire is a place where discovery and danger walk hand in hand!

- Moüd: The City of Bones (Pathfinder and DND 5E): An ancient center of trade and magic, Moüd was lost to a cataclysm, and then buried in myth. Reclaimed by the necromantic arts of the Silver Wraiths guild, this city has once again become a place teeming with life. Despite the burgeoning population, though, it is the continued presence of the undead that helps keep the city running, ensuring that Moüd is not swallowed up once more.

- Silkgift: The City of Sails (Pathfinder and DND 5E): Built on the cottage industry of Archer cloth (an extremely durable material used for sails, windmills, etc.), Silkgift is a place that prizes invention and discovery. From gravity batteries that store the potential of the wind, to unique irrigation systems, to aether weapons, the city positively churns out discoveries... and then there's the canal they cut through the mountains that makes them a major center of trade across the region.

- Hoardreach: The City of Wyrms (Pathfinder and DND 5E): A center of power across an entire region, Hoardreach is ruled over by a Cooperation of five different dragons. A place for refugees and outcasts of all sorts, Hoardreach boasts some of the most unusual citizens and creations from across Sundara. Infamous for their sky ships, which require the cast-off scales and unique arcane sciences of the Dragon Works to take to the air, one never knows just what they'll find in this city built atop a mountain.

- Archbliss: The City of The Sorcerers (Pathfinder and DND 5E): A floating city in the sky, Archbliss has been a refuge for sorcerers for thousands of years. It's only in relatively recent years that the city has allowed those from the ground below who lack the power of a bloodline to join them in the clouds. However, while there are certainly amazing wonders to behold, there is a darkness in Archbliss. Something rotting away at its heart that could, if not healed, bring the city crashing to the ground once more.

Gods of Sundara

- Gods of Sundara (available for Pathfinder and DND 5E): In a world with no alignment, and where the gods are often genuinely mysterious forces that are far too large for mortals to truly comprehend, the divine feels genuinely strange and unknown... something that really does have to be taken on faith. This supplement provides a sample pantheon for Sundara, but also provides instructions on how to easily make your own gods in a world where you can't cast a spell and tell whether someone is good or evil.

Species of Sundara

Sundara is filled with creatures that many of us recognize, but I wanted to give greater depth to their cultures, and a wider variety of options. After all, humans always get 15+ ethnicities, languages, and unique histories, while elves, dwarves, orcs, halflings, etc. are almost always left with footnotes, or maybe with a handful of offshoots. So, in short, I wanted to give all the fantastical creatures the treatment that humans usually get in our games.

And there is no human book yet. If readers demand to know more, then I may sit down to pen one... but I figured that humans didn't need to be front-and-center in this setting just yet.

- Elves of Sundara (Pathfinder and DND 5E): Elves are one of the most quintessential fantasy creatures... but if you want to see more than just high elves, wood elves, and elves of the sun and moon, then this supplement has you covered!

- Dwarves of Sundara (Pathfinder and DND 5E): The children of the primordial giants who were meant to fill in the details of the world they'd made (or so the myths say) there are as many kinds of dwarves as their are kinds of giants... and possibly more, depending on who is keeping count.

- Orcs of Sundara (Pathfinder and DND 5E): Supposedly a creation of the elves, none can say for certain exactly how or why orcs have been made. What most agree on is that these creatures are far more than most may think at first glance.

- Halflings of Sundara (Pathfinder and DND 5E): Little cousins to the dwarves, halflings are tough, clever, and not to be underestimated. From living beneath the hills, to taking up residence in the deep forests, halflings in Sundara come in quite a variety!

- The Blooded (Half-Elves and Half-Orcs) [Pathfinder and DND 5E]: When orcs and elves mix their bloodlines with other creatures, the result is one of the Blooded. This inheritance takes many forms, and it can even wait generations before manifesting when the right combination of individuals come together to have a child.

- Gnomes of Sundara (Pathfinder and DND 5E): Gnomes are strange creatures, found in places where the spirit of the land has coalesced and made children of its own. The sons and daughters of the ancient nymphs, they are the stewards of these places, and they change as often as the weather and the land.

Like, Follow, and Stay in Touch!

That's all for this week's Moon Pope Monday. To stay on top of all my content and releases, make sure you subscribe to my newsletter at the bottom of the page!

Again, for more of my work, check out my Vocal archive, and stop by the YouTube channel Dungeon Keeper Radio. Or if you'd prefer to read some of my books, like my cat noir thriller Marked Territory, its sequel Painted Cats, my sword and sorcery novel Crier's Knife or my latest short story collection The Rejects, then head over to My Amazon Author Page!

To stay on top of all my latest releases, follow me on Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter, and now Pinterest as well! To support my work, consider Buying Me a Ko-Fi, or heading to The Literary Mercenary's Patreon page to become a regular, monthly patron. That one helps ensure you get more Improved Initiative, and it means you'll get my regular, monthly giveaways as a bonus!

5 Ways to Multiclass Barbarian and Monk in Pathfinder

If I had to pick one thing I've fielded more complaints about than any other aspect of the game regarding Pathfinder, it's how certain classes have alignment restrictions placed on them. While I'm in favor of them existing (as your alignment is sort of pointless if it doesn't have teeth, but that's another post for another day), I also know that if you flip through enough of the books that you'll always find a way to get around supposedly ironclad rules.

That's one thing I love about Pathfinder... it's practically guaranteed there's a way to make the character you want happen, if you dig a bit; and that is true for all the barbarian/monk lovers out there.

A crushing ab routine, killer mantras, and a fury that could sunder mountains...

Whether you just want to mix these two classes together for a low-level one shot, or you're building your ultimate epic-level PC for a years-long campaign, there are several ways to accomplish this goal. I've laid out the most common ones below, but there may be one or two that I missed, so leave them in the comments if you know of one I didn't cover!

Also, if this subject is close to your heart, then you might want to check out the following previous posts.

- 5 Tips For Playing Better Barbarians
- 5 Tips For Playing Better Monks
- 5 Barbarian Multiclass Concepts Your Table Won't See Coming

#1: Enlightened Warrior Aasimar Trait

I walk a different path.

 This trait, found in the Blood of Angels Player Companion, is the one a majority of people will use to make barbarian and monk play nice together. This trait, at its most basic, allows you to take monk levels while maintaining a neutral or neutral good alignment. Ideal if you can get the okay for an aasimar PC, and it gives you the freedom to get as weird or wild as you want with your archetype options on both sides of the fence.

Also, if you're worried about falling into stereotypes with this one, browse through 5 Tips For Playing Better Tieflings and Aasimar to see if inspiration strikes you!

#2: Elemental Monk Archetype

Earth, fire, wind, water...

 

One of the more common methods of subverting the monk's required lawful alignment is to go for the elemental monk archetype, found in Disciple's Doctrine. This archetype shifts the monk's requirements into true neutral, and gives you access to feats and abilities that make your attacks elemental. The handy thing about your features is that, unlike characters who normally take these fighting style and elemental strike feats, an elemental monk can cycle between the different elements like some kind of prize-fighting Avatar. Handy when you've been focusing on fire, but you really need acid to deal major hurt to the current enemy.

#3: Karmic Monk Archetype

Oh you ought not to have done that...

 The karmic monk archetype, found in Occult Adventures, allows you to be truly neutral. An instrument of karma, you are cause and effect personified, and a lot of your abilities fit this theme. Your unarmed strikes can overcome pretty much any alignment-based DR, and you get bonuses when you attack those who attacked you first. Fun little package, and a nice twist on the traditional monk.

#4: Martial Artist Monk Archetype

There is no shame in tapping out, my son.

A completely different kind of monk archetype, the martial artist is found in Ultimate Combat. This one strips out most of the wuxia-style powers we're used to monks having, giving them the ability to analyze a target from a combat perspective, and to gain bonuses to hit, hurt, and dodge them accordingly. They also gain immunity to fatigue at level 5, which can pair nicely with a Rage-cycling build. And, best of all, martial artists can be of any alignment.

#5: Geminate Invoker Barbarian Archetype

This spirits call to me, brother.

The geminate invoker archetype, found in Adventurer's Guide, is an extremely unique kind of barbarian. They must have a neutral aspect to their alignment, but can be lawful, and they have the ability to put themselves into a kind of trance. This calls powerful spirits into their bodies, allowing them to cycle through the totem Rage Powers without committing to any one of them. A deadly combination, if you know which spirits to call on in which fight.

Be Careful When Mixing These Elements

As I said in The Barbarian Samurai, it's important to remember that a lot of a barbarian's potency is determined by the number of barbarian levels they have. The same is definitely true for monks. And combining these two elements together might allow you to do some truly silly things (such as an Aasimar combining monk with the Savage Barbarian archetype to see just how silly their armor class can get), it's important to keep your end goal firmly in mind, and to be realistic about what your character will and won't be able to accomplish.

Like any potent concoction, make sure you know what you're dipping into, and what you're going to put a majority of your levels in. Because a bonus to AC and some sweet unarmed damage is great if your barbarian's got a LOT of really good stats. The ability to fly into a frenzy and boost up your attacks and damage (even your dodge if you combine monk with Savage Technologist, which ups your Dexterity and Strength with no AC penalty when you Rage) is also a nice addition to have on a monk. But there's also a lot of potential that you won't get as much out of this combo as you would either class taken straight, so multiclass responsibly.

Like, Share, and Follow For More!

That's all for this week's Crunch topic! For more of my work, check out my Vocal archive, and stop by the YouTube channel Dungeon Keeper Radio! Or if you'd like to read some of my books, like my sword and sorcery novel Crier's Knife, head over to My Amazon Author Page!

To stay on top of all my latest releases, follow me on Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter, and now on Pinterest as well! And if you'd like to help support me and my work, consider Buying Me A Ko-Fi or heading over to The Literary Mercenary's Patreon page to become a regular, monthly patron! Even a little bit of help can go a long way, trust me on that one.

MORE Rules Pathfinder Players Keep Forgetting

In late June I published a list of 5 Rules Pathfinder Players Keep Forgetting, and the response to it was amazing. Forums were exploding with a buzz, and everyone was clamoring about other rules that got left off of the list. I took careful notes, and I decided there were so many that I had to come back and write a continuation to the original list. In fact, this series has been going on so long I now need to include the full list of entries on rules players have been overlooking, forgetting, or just plain don't know.

- Playing By The Book: Some Pathfinder Rules That Players Keep Forgetting
- MORE Rules Pathfinder Players Keep Forgetting
- Even MORE Rules Pathfinder Players Keep Forgetting
- Still More Rules Pathfinder Players Keep Forgetting
- 5 More Rules Pathfinder Players Keep Forgetting

So, that said, here's some more rules you likely forgot all about...

You Need Cover or Concealment to Use Stealth

You're going to need to do a little better than that...

I've lost track of the number of games I've played where a character is so specialized in stealth that a pin drop would seem like a gunshot compared to his footsteps. Hell, I've written a character build article for how to do this very thing right here on this blog. But even if you are silent as death and stealthy as a shadow, that doesn't change that you can't just roll a stealth check and become invisible.

Page 106 of the Core Rule Book outlines how the stealth skill works. Basically if anyone is observing you with any sense (sight, smell, hearing, etc.) then you cannot make a stealth check. Period. If you want to try and pull a Batman then you first need to make a bluff check, and then you can move to a place where you have cover and attempt a stealth check at a -10.

Short version; stealth is a skill, not a spell. Unless you have some class ability like hide in plain sight, or a feat like hellcat stealth (Cheliax, Empire of Devils) then you had better be able to move from rock to rock like a special ops soldier if you want to sneak up unseen.

Anyone Can Find Magic Traps

One of the strangest arguments I've come across from storytellers is that, in their games, rogues can't find or disable magical traps unless they have levels of some kind of spellcasting class. Despite the very clear language of the trapfinding ability these storytellers refuse to allow one of the signature abilities of the rogue class to come into play if they haven't dipped at least one level in wizard or sorcerer.

It must hurt to know they're double wrong.

Everybody chill out... I got this.

Page 417 of the Core Rule Book makes no bones about the fact that anyone can find traps both mechanical and magical. The basic DC for finding and disabling a mechanical trap is 20, and raising or lowering that DC changes the CR of the trap in question. When it comes to magical traps the base DC for both spotting and disabling the trap is a DC 25 + the level of the highest spell used in the trap. Only those with the trapfinding class feature can attempt to disable these traps using the disable device skill, but there's no word on whether or not wizards can disable these traps or not. Anyone, from the eagle-eyed barbarian to the overly-observant bard can perceive them, though.

Yes, You Can Take Multiple Archetypes For The Same Class

One of the best things that Pathfinder introduced starting with the Advanced Player's Guide was the idea of class archetypes. Rather than re-inventing the wheel by creating dozens of new base classes, or stuffing the world with prestige classes (a big complaint toward the end of Dungeons and Dragons 3.5), Pathfinder introduced archetypes that replace some of a class's old abilities with shiny new ones that allow them to be better at certain things. The Titan Mauler is good at fighting big enemies, and loses some signature barbarian abilities, the Holy Gun creates a black powder paladin, but strips away some of the raiment of a knight in shining armor... you get the idea.

Yes you can take more than one archetype for the same class.

It's the only way to explain this, really.

The caveat for this rule, found in the Advanced Player's Guide is that you cannot take two archetypes that replace the same ability. So you could take Thug and Bandit, two rogue archetypes, because they replace different abilities entirely. On the other hand you can't take an armor master and a brawler (the fighter variant, not the Advanced Class Guide class), because both of these archetypes replace weapon training 1.

Yes you can double dip. No you can't do it with the chip you've already finished eating.

Activating A Magic Item is a Standard Action

This is one of those sticky rules that players think they know, but often forget key pieces of. For instance, we all know that using a scroll or activating a wand is a standard action. But what about activating your flaming sword? Or sheathing your frost mace in arctic chill?

Yep, still a standard action.

Terrifying the locals remains, however, a free action.

Lots of players tend to forget that everything takes time. Yes it's cinematic for a fighter to growl a word in ancient celestial to light his burning sword, but it's good tactics to go into the stronghold of evil with your big guns cocked and locked. It also cuts down on grousing about wasted turns if you take care of all your command-word activations before the DM calls for initiative.

Combat Maneuvers

Combat maneuvers are those tricky things that most players eschew until they come up against a situation where they would be really useful (sundering the enemy's nearly impenetrable armor, hammering the poisoned knife out of the assassin's hand, grappling the escaped prisoner you want to take alive, etc.). While any character can attempt these maneuvers (though they draw attacks of opportunity if you don't have the improved name of combat maneuver feat), there's a lot of confusion about them.

So I make an opposed strength check now... right?

Firstly it's important to remember that some combat maneuvers can be done as a standard action, and some combat maneuvers simply replace an attack. Disarm, sunder, and trip can replace attacks (including those in a flurry of blows, or those being used by a two-weapon fighter), whereas bull rush, overrun, grapple, dirty trick, steal, and reposition all take a standard action. Of these standard actions, only a bull rush or an overrun may be used as part of a charge. You will roll a 20 and add your CMB (combat maneuver bonus), and if you beat the CMD (combat maneuver defense) of the enemy then congratulations you have successfully pulled off the maneuver.

Secondly you don't need to charge to use the bull rush combat maneuver. You can charge (Core Rule Book 198), and if you do you get a +2 to your bull rush maneuver, but you can perform the maneuver while standing entirely still.

Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate Are Not Mind Control

The bonus 6th rule of this set, at the risk of repeating myself, is that lots of players tend to forget skills are not more powerful than spells. Any character can have a skill and build it up to a robust number; only certain classes get spells. It's for that reason that yes a bard can talk a mean game with her silver tongue to try and sweeten up a guard to let the party past, but if he she really wants to make the guard do something then it's going to take a command spell or a similar effect to force the guard's hand.

Why? Because you can have the most reasoned, appealing argument in the world, but some people won't care because they're bigoted, prejudiced, distrustful, or they just don't like you.

Sorry honey, I only listen when men are talking.

According to the descriptions of these skills (all of which are found in the skills chapter of the Core Rule Book) bluff can be used to convince people of the truth of a believable lie, diplomacy can be used to increase a creature's attitude toward you by up to two steps, and intimidate can be used to force a character to act as if it were friendly toward you for a few minutes before reverting to unfriendly.

What can't you do with these skills? You can't convince the goblin that he's actually an ogre, you can't suddenly persuade the paladin that his oaths don't matter, and you can't intimidate someone into betraying a sworn ruler if that person has ironclad loyalty. You most certainly cannot just get into someone's pants because you rolled a really high number on a social check. Basically you can't just roll a die and then take control of another character's decisions and responses, no matter how many levels you beat the DC by.

For those who have rules that are constantly forgotten at your table please leave them in the comments, or email them! Thanks again for dropping by Improved Initiative, and if you'd like to follow me then type your email into the box on the right, or stop by my Facebook and Tumblr pages. If you'd like to support this blog, and by extension me, then like this post on FB by clicking the box on the upper right, leave a tip in my "Bribe the DM" button on the right hand side, or stop by my Patreon page and become a patron today!